Episode 40 – Bridging Knowledge for Community Conservation

TRANSCRIPT 

Episode 40: Bridging Knowledge for Community Conservation 

Series hosts: Dr. Xavier Basurto, Dana Grieco

Podcast hosts: Brittany Tholan, Claire Huang, Grace Jennings, Jie Yi Wang, Zoe Wong 

Dana: Welcome to Seas the Day. I’m Dana Grieco, and this week, we bring you an episode created by students in Community-Based Marine Conservation in the Gulf of California, a course lead by Dr. Xavier Basurto and co-led by me. This is an experiential education course designed to allow students to learn first-hand about “community” and “conservation” and how both come together in the context of the marine environment. To do this, the class creates the conditions so students can interact directly with individuals engaging with community-based marine conservation from a diversity of perspectives. We choose the Gulf of California in Mexico as an illustration because of its prominence as a region of high conservation interest and because of its history with community-based conservation. We visit with fishers, conservation practitioners, tourism operators, marine protected area managers, indigenous people, and others to understand how they view, practice, and govern conservation. We hope that this podcast takes you with students of our course as they confront their own worldviews with those of the coastal communities we visit and as they consider how different viewpoints challenge the practice of community-based conservation itself.”

Brittany:  

[Printer 3:02-3:10] Have you ever had to learn how to use a finicky printer? [3:11-3:16] You know, one that idles, jams, or just doesn’t print? [3:17-3:25] 

Maybe you need to hit print twice, or give it a light smack on the side. [smack @ 3:30] There’s a way to do it, and likely, someone in your office knows.  

 [Printer explained 0:18-0:28 “What you’re supposed to do is…”; 0:36-0:44 printing noises immediately after, delete awk pause]  

The knowledge of how to use a finicky printer in your workplace, or how to drive in a snowstorm, or where to buy the freshest fish, are examples of local knowledge. This type of knowledge equips us to deal with the specific issues of our local environments, and varies greatly from place to place.  

Local knowledge has important applications for marine conservation. Think about the knowledge of where the best fishing hole is, or where sea turtles go to breed. This information may be learned through experience, or passed down through generations of people interacting with their environment. It is not necessarily collected through the scientific method, and may be held informally, told through song or story, an unwritten knowledge, held only in the minds of those who know the environment best. 

Indigenous Peoples, who have long-standing traditions intricately bound with nature, often hold a unique type of local knowledge, which we’ll refer to here as traditional knowledge.  

For the sake of this podcast, we’ll call knowledge acquired through that scientific method – what you may have learned in high school biology or physics — as Western knowledge. 

Recently, global leaders met in Geneva to negotiate the post-2020 Global Biodiversity Framework. As it currently stands, Parties to the Convention of Biological Diversity must, quote, “ensure that quality information and knowledge, including the traditional knowledge, innovations and practices of indigenous peoples and local communities…are available and accessible to decision makers” it goes on, but that’s the gist. 

This is a new trend in the global discourse about conservation. In the past, conservation organizations have operated under the idea that excluding people from precious natural sites is the best way to conserve it. 

[“Geoffrey Barnard” 2:13-2:20 “Matter of fact, in the Nature Conservancy, we basically were buying land…”] 

This is Geoffrey Barnard, who was the director of the Midwest Region for The Nature Conservancy in the 70s.  

[“Geoffrey Barnard” 2:22-3:02 “And I mean this isn’t…without consultation with the tribes.” (cut out my voice if possible)] 

Things are getting better, and the Nature Conservancy has since involved more local communities in the maintenance of natural places. 

However, the Convention of Biological Diversity maintains that decisions should be made using “the best available science.” So where exactly does extremely localized, traditional knowledge fit in?  

[Insert audio “10 mix baico” starting at 00:02 to 00:20 alone – then fade and continue playing softly in background under voiceover for next paragraph ]  

We are Brittany Tholan, Claire Huang, Grace Jennings, Jie Yi Wang, and Zoe Wong.  

In this episode of Seas the Day, a podcast from the Duke University Marine Lab, we explore the challenges and promises of bridging local and Western knowledge through a case study with the Comcaác People in the Northern Gulf of California, Mexico.  

As students in the Community-Based Marine Conservation course at Duke University, we had the opportunity to visit the remote coastal communities of Kino Bay and Punta Chueca in the Mexican state of Sonora. We spoke with people who have been working to bridge knowledge systems in the context of conservation for decades.  

[Music fades out here] 

 First, we will explore how knowledge moves by asking people how they know what they know.  

Next, we will share a few examples of how knowledge types are applied. 

And finally, we will reflect on what we have learned over our two weeks in the Sonoran desert, and where we, as an international conservation community, go from here.  

But first, let’s meet the Comcaác. 

[Insert “Sunrise Seabird Estuary” for 3 seconds, then fade in audio “04 mix beisi dobene” starting from 00:05 to 00:20] [Then, fade both to a softer volume – both song and sound effects continue to play softer in background as voiceover begins] 

In the Northern Gulf of California, the Comcaác have been living off the land for millennia. 

[Sound effects and music continue] 

[“Alberto Mellado 3-22 pt1” from 32:38-32:51] “We have been here since the last part of the last ice age and we watched the sea level rise 150m here and the island being born, some of them.” 

[32:56-33:17] “So this desert… so we have been fishing all this time.” 

[Beach sound effects fade out after quote finishes] 

That was Alberto Mellado Molina, a local government representative for the Comcaác community.  

[“04 mix beisi dobene” audio continues for 5 more seconds into next voiceover, then fade out] 

The Comcaác traditionally inhabited the central coast of the Gulf of California, as well as the nearby islands of Tiburon and San Esteban. The Comcaác corner of the Sonoran desert is an extremely rugged environment. Steep mountains dotted in saguaro cactuses slope into estuaries and bays with large, shifting tidal ranges, which boast a biodiversity of bivalves, and  serve as important breeding grounds for a variety of fishes, reptiles, birds, and marine mammals. Ernesto called it the womb of mother nature.  

[“Seagull Sounds” for about 10 sec, fade in and out] 

However, spurs of violence have streaked this beautiful environment with bloodshed. 

[“Ernesto on boat” 6:03-6:15, try to cut out XB saying “1956”] 

In 1956, when Ernesto Molina was about 10 years old, he found a skull in the estuary.  

[“Ernesto on boat” 7:33-7:50]: “el vez de exterminar o desalojar, la parte que estén ahora y como esta área el Gobierno federal lo quería desalojar sacar”…[cut out XB’s “y porque”]  “para meter gente de México.”] 

[Insert “Ernesto quote translation” 00:05-00:13 – “At the time of extermination or evictiction, the part that is now this area, the federal government wanted to evict us, and to bring in people from Mexico.”] 

Ernesto is describing the many clashes between the Comcaác and the Mexican Military in the 19th and early 20th centuries, which reduced the population from what once was probably a few thousand to fewer than 200.  

Ernesto and his family are from a band of the Comcaác that lived on Tiburon Island. When he was born there, in the 40s, this band was still very much subsisting off a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. He said his father would run down mule deer, a process that takes 4-5 days, but that feeds the entire village. 

According to Ernesto, in 1949, Americans found the Comcaác community living on Tiburon and told the Mexican government. In response, the government built schools on the mainland, and the last band of Comcaác to live on Tiburon left to pursue educational opportunities and the vision of a better life awaiting them on the mainland.  

Between 1970 and 1978, the Comcaác were granted exclusive access to part of their ancestral land and coastal waters, including Tiburon Island, and the Infiernillo Channel between Tiburon and mainland Mexico. Today, the Comcaác have a population of around 1,200, which is evenly split between two towns: Desemboque in the north, and Punta Chueca, further south.  

[Quick fade in/out of audio: “Women selling things” from 00:03 for 5 seconds] This is the sound of women approaching us with beautiful artisanal crafts in Punta Chueca, from baskets, to snake-vertebrae necklaces, to pouches of salvia plant, to tiny wood carvings of sea turtles and dolphins.  

[Quick fade in/out of audio: “Boat noises” 0:00-0:08] A few feet away, the men of the village are preparing to leave for a day of fishing on the Infiernillo Channel.  

South of the Comcaác Territory, fishers in Kino Bay prepare their boats as well. Depending on the weather and the fishing opportunities, they may decide to travel up the coast and fish in the shallow, scallop-filled waters of the Infernillo. 

Now that you’ve heard a little bit more about the communities and ecosystems in this region, let’s explore how the Comcaác know what they know.

Grace:

[TRANSITION SONG: Insert audio “Valentina Octopus Song” from 00:11 to 00:21, before continue to play at softer volume when speaking starts] 

 In Comcaác oral history, the land on earth was created when Hant Caai – the creator- asked the sea animals to retrieve sand from the bottom of the ocean. When all of the other animals failed, the sea turtle returned from the depths of the sea with a few grains of sand that became the earth on which we live.  

[“Valentina Octopus Song” fades out] 

Storytelling is a universal mode of sharing and preserving knowledge. Across all cultures, stories about creation, history, and morals play a big role in defining community values and norms.  

The song you just heard was sung by Valentina Torres. She is a Comcaác woman who we had the opportunity to speak with and learn from during our time on Tiburon Island. Valentina grew up in Punta Chueca as the eldest of four girls. As an adult, she has been committed to spreading seeds of Comcaác culture both within the community, and to the rest of the world.  

[Insert audio “Valentina (4/1)” from 2:00-2:10 and 2:45-2:54, explaining her uncle] 

Valentina learned many of the songs and stories she knows from her uncle. Her uncle grew up on Tiburon Island when the Comcaác still lived as hunter-gatherers. He had a passion for singing and telling stories- which, for the Comcaác, are often one in the same.  

We also had the chance to learn from Roberto Molina Herrera, who goes by the nickname Toro Canelo, or “Cinnamon Bull”. Toro is a Comcaác elder who, at 71 years old, is filled with youthful gusto and a deep passion for singing and dancing. In the community, he is renowned for his skills in traditional dance and is often hired to perform at various ceremonies and celebrations.  

As an active community member, Toro runs an after school program to teach Comcaác song and dance (and language) to children. To both him and Valentina, it’s imperative that younger generations know songs and stories of their native culture in order to maintain these traditions. 

 [Insert audio “Valentina (4/1)” from 24:05 – 24:22, explaining that they are survivors of extermination] 

Here, Valentina is explaining the fact that the Comcaác who exist today represent a small population of survivors of persistent extermination efforts. To Valentina and Toro, serving traditional modes of knowledge is a responsibility that they owe to their culture and their ancestors because they are all that’s left. More than anything, these stories and songs represent survival.  

 [TRANSITION SONG: Insert audio “Valentina Song 1” from 00:00 to 00:18, then fade out as next voiceover begins] 

Learning through experience is another important mode of knowledge for the Comcaác people.  

Max is a fisherman and father of 3 born and raised in Punta Chueca. When he isn’t diving for pen shells to support his family, Max is deeply involved in numerous conservation projects. One project he has been a part of is working on whale monitoring in the waters around the central Gulf. 

Max first got involved with the whale monitoring project because he was recognized by researchers for his local knowledge in whale populations in the Gulf. He grew up spending lots of time on the water fishing and learning from his elders, so over his lifetime he accumulated generations of information about whales. He knows the Comcaác names for species as well as their migration patterns and the general biology. When he goes out with researchers to monitor whales, Max contributes vital knowledge that scientists may not know, having only studied them in an empirical, western way.  

[Insert audio from “Max (4-1)” from 12:38 to 12:52 – saying that every time he goes out it’s an exchange of knowledge]  

Experiential knowledge is also vital for fishers here in this region. There is no class in school that teaches kids where to fish, what kinds of gear to use on certain days, or how to use bioluminescence to fish at night. These are all skills that fishers learn from spending hundreds of hours out on the water – often with people who are more experienced than themselves.   

Like many small-scale fisheries, Kino Bay and the Infiernillo Channel suffer from a constant boom and bust cycle of overfishing and species depletion. Over the past 60 years, local fishers have overexploited numerous important species in the area, most of which still have not rebounded. Because of this cycle, fishers are forced to adapt to changes in species abundance by learning new harvesting methods, using different gear, or fishing in unknown areas. 

When it comes to conservation, experiential knowledge is extremely important. Erika Barnett is a mother and community activist from Punta Chueca. Having grown up in the area with a deep connection to her environment,  Erika has a strong understanding of the important role that mangroves play in the local ecosystem.  

[Fade in and out: “Erica Punta Chueca Mangroves” from 11:47-11:57, fade out before next voiceover] 

10 years ago, Erika started collecting mangrove seeds that were washed up on the beach near her childhood home. Through years of trial and error, she developed a system for growing mangrove seeds in soda bottles and planting the seedlings in areas where she has noticed mangrove populations were struggling. Her knowledge of the environment, which has developed through years of observation, is now being used to maintain mangrove populations for the betterment of the ecosystem as a whole.  

She has also involved her children and their peers in this project – handing down her passion for mangrove restoration to younger generations. In doing so, she’s maintaining the sacred bond between her people and the natural environment that has persisted for thousands of years.  

Now we have an idea of how the Comcaác know what they know. Next, let’s dive into how people in this region apply their knowledge in different contexts.  

[TRANSITION SONG: Insert audio “08 mix toniyobi manabi” from 00:05 – 00:20, then fade out as next voiceover begins] 

Zoe:

In the Gulf of California, the Comcaác and local scientists have shared knowledge with each other for years.  

The Comcaác’s traditional knowledge ranges from natural history, to fishing, to artisanry, all the way to medicine. During our visit, we had the chance to try a traditional tea made with salvia. Salvia is an herb in the mint family with soft, fuzzy, fragrant leaves. The tea was also steeped in bark from an elephant tree, a short, stout tree with a thick trunk that helps it retain water. To collect these ingredients, our Comcaác guides, Valentina and her sister Geza, led us to a freshwater spring on Tiburon Island located near their mother’s childhood home. The Comcaác no longer live on Tiburon Island, but because the range of the elephant tree is limited, they must cross from the mainland to collect bark for their tea.  

 [Insert audio “Sandy footsteps” for 3 seconds, fade into next voiceover] 

The evening after our hike, Valentina and Geza prepared the tea for us. I was surprised to see that the tea was light pink with a floral scent and mildly sweet taste. Valentina told us that the tea is used for medicinal purposes: salvia has anti-inflammatory properties, while elephant bark is used to treat anemia.  

During the pandemic, the Comcaác have used this salvia tea as a preventative measure against Covid-19. Geza told us that she’s been drinking salvia tea every day since the start of the pandemic. One of her relatives travels to Tiburon Island periodically to collect the ingredients just like we did.  

We learned more about how the Comcaác have used traditional medicine to treat and prevent Covid-19 from Lauri Monti, a cultural ecologist who has worked with the Comcaác for almost three decades. During the pandemic, Lauri worked with the community to create Salud Comcaác, a program for Covid-19 care and prevention. Much of the program was focused on providing local health clinics with basic necessities like food and clean water.  

[“Lauri (3-21) pt1” from 9:20 – 9:38 – “It’s got different layers, one is this first hands-on…running water.”] 

On top of this, Lauri and her Comcaác counterparts also created a kit with natural herbs for Covid prevention and the treatment of Covid symptoms. The herbs were collected locally by the Comcaác. 

[“Lauri (3-21) pt1” from 10:16-10:43 “At the same time we were doing modern medicine and technology…covid kit.”] 

By using their knowledge about local herbs and traditional medicine, the Comcaác were able to effectively combat Covid-19.  

[“Lauri (3-21) pt1” from 10:56-11:18 “People that had covid…so people stopped dying.”] 

Many Comcaác, like Geza, continue to take preventative measures rooted in traditional medicine. However, the Comcaác have also taken advantage of Western medicine techniques to further protect themselves. Many of the Comcaác are now vaccinated against Covid-19 due to a rural vaccination campaign run by the Mexican federal government.  In this community, both traditional and Western knowledge of medicinal techniques have combined in the Comcaác’s modern fight against Covid. The Comcaác’s traditional knowledge is not stuck in time – it continues to be relevant and adaptable to new challenges. 

[“Sunrise Sounds” starting from 00:00 for 5 seconds, fade out] 

Knowledge can even inspire community transformation. We had a chance to speak with Jaime Martinez, who is the conservation coordinator of the waterbirds monitoring program at the Kino Bay Center For Cultural And Ecological Studies, affiliated with Prescott College in Arizona. As a marine biologist and naturalist, Jaime has spent the past four years working tirelessly to gather data on local seabirds for conservation. Through these efforts, the waterbirds monitoring program has provided enough data to support the designation of Ramsar certification for the Santa Cruz Estuary in Kino Bay.  

[Insert audio “Jaime Martinez (3-26)” from 12:00-12:24 “Protocols in monitoring for seabirds…if they are made by the same protocols.” AND 12:42-13:01 “The last season we were working on the update…it has importance for the conservation of nature.”] 

As Jaime shared, the Ramsar Convention is an international agreement, like the Paris Agreement, dedicated specifically to the conservation of wetland habitats for waterbirds. By collecting data to support this prestigious conservation status for the estuary, Jaime and his team have opened up new opportunities and funding for conservation projects of all types. 

On a community level, Jaime believes that informing local fishers and tourists about the natural environment is the key to protecting local species. As part of a community education campaign, he has worked hard to inform people about nesting sites and potential risks that seabirds on nearby islands face from human visitors.  

[Insert audio “Jaime Martinez (3-26)” from 16:09-16:26, “People that cause disturbance…to make decisions in these kind of things.”] 

As a result of this outreach work, Jaime has noticed a positive change in local fishers’ and visitors’ behavior toward seabirds and their desire to protect them. 

[“Jaime Martinez (3-26)” 16:27-16:39 “Now it’s very different…that changed because of my work.” AND 16:56-17:01 “It’s not that they don’t care about the nature…and they cannot protect it.”] 

[TRANSITION: As quote finishes, softly fade in overlay of “Seagull Sounds” and “Reverie Transition” from 00:00] 

To Jaime, knowledge is the key to inspiring conservation in his community.  

[Continue playing “Seagull Sounds” and “Reverie Transition” for 5 seconds, then fade out as next voiceover begins]

Jieyi:

We just learned how knowledge can foster a conservation mindset and change behavior within a community. Let’s now visit a story about how knowledge transformed one local Kino Bay fisher into a celebrated conservationist and community leader.  

While traveling around the islands, we got to know Cosme Becerra, our captain and jack of all trades. Cosme started to work as a local commercial octopus diver as a teenager. As a fisher, he never thought of himself as a conservationist. For many years, Cosme saw the ocean and its wildlife as a source of money for his family. 

As a fisher out on the water every day, Cosme knew that sea turtles were common in the region. But he saw that they were becoming more and more rare over the years.  

[“Cosme on boat (4-1)” 5:58-6:05 “Porque me miraba mucho consumo…tortugas aqui” AND 6:11-6:17 FADE into the background] – I saw all the consumption of turtles 

At the same time, he began to notice how many sea turtles were being killed through bycatch and illegal poaching on fishing vessels in the area, including his. 

[“Cosme on boat (4-1)” 20:59-21:23 “Yo era parte de esa ambiente…”] – I also caught turtles as bycatch 

But nobody was keeping an eye on the local population. This was a gap that Cosme thought he could fill.  

This motivated him to apply for government funding to set up a sea turtle monitoring program.  

Cosme learned about Grupo Tortuguero from a relative. Grupo Tortuguero is a Mexican organization based in the Gulf of California that works to monitor and conserve local sea turtle populations. 

[“Cosme on boat (4-1)” 6:42-6:48 “Y entonces…” AND 6:55-7:02 AND 7:10-7:15 FADE into the background] – story of how grupo started 

Starting in 2010, Cosme and a group of 6 relatives started a local Grupo Tortuguero chapter and received training in data collection and tagging methods for sea turtles. When the local estuary gained Ramsar certification, Grupo Tortuguero received additional resources and funds for sea turtle conservation. Cosme uses his skills as a former fisher and commercial diver to find, document, and tag sea turtles.  

[“Cosme on boat (4-1)” 11:29-11:46 “Y apoyan en…”] – more resources, tagging 500 turtles in 4 years 

In 4 years between 2014-2018, Cosme and the local Grupo Tortuguero chapter tagged more than 500 sea turtles in the bay. Cosme’s prior relationship with the fishing community has also facilitated a transformation among fishers. Instead of throwing away turtle bycatch, fishers have started to call Cosme to help injured sea turtles. They also send him photos of tags on the sea turtles they catch.  

[“Cosme on boat (4-1)” 22:54-23:04 “Y pues la…”] – when I’m with students a fisher will bring a turtle 

Cosme’s unexpected personal transformation from a fisher of all marine life to a conservationist demonstrates how flexible knowledge can be.  

[Insert audio from “Cosme on boat (4-1)” from 28:07-28:25 “Pues…” – edit out “mhm/si si si” at 28:15, 28:18, 28:21, 28:24] – I was a predator 

In his past, Cosme used his skills as a fisher to extract resources from the local environment. And now, Cosme applies those exact same skills to lead a conservation effort in the community – one that has led to a behavior change in the fishing community itself. A combination of local fishers knowledge and scientific knowledge has made this possible. 

[TRANSITION SONG: Fade in audio “Reverie Transition” from 00:28 for 5 seconds, then fade out as next voiceover begins] 

Zoe:

Traditional knowledge also has potential to supplement Western knowledge in new ways. Max, the Comcaác fisher who participates in local whale monitoring, shared an example of how his traditional knowledge has improved fisheries governance in the Infiernillo Channel. 

[Insert audio “Max (4-1)” from 21:16 – 21:26 fade out as next section begins, “Por ejemplo, la jaiba…”] 

A few years ago, Mexico’s National Commission for Natural Protected Areas proposed new regulations for the local swimming crab fishery in the region. The proposal limited fishing during the swimming crab’s reproductive season. However, because the Comcaác have fished swimming crab in the Infiernillo Channel for hundreds of years, Max and other Comcaác fishers knew that the swimming crab reproduction season in the channel was slightly different than swimming crab reproduction in other areas. 

 [Insert audio “Max (4-1)”  from 20:40-20:55 “(some word) de afuera…sabemos no”] 

 A fisheries closure during the wrong time would rob Comcaác fishers of potential income and fail to protect swimming crabs during the months when they actually were reproducing. Plus, local fishers wouldn’t even follow this faulty rule.  

To address this issue, Comcaác fishers contacted the Protected Areas commission to inform them about their error. Eventually, the commission changed the swimming crab regulation to reflect the species’ different reproductive season in the Infiernillo Channel. 

In this case, the Comcaác’s traditional, local knowledge about swimming crab reproduction supplemented scientific knowledge and allowed for better protections for the swimming crab. However, this success story was only possible because a group of informed Comcaác fishers chose to speak up. If they hadn’t taken these proactive steps, the Protected Areas commission would never have known that its proposed regulation was ineffective. In order to access the full potential of traditional knowledge for conservation, it is imperative that we actively seek out traditional knowledge and integrate it into decisions about resource governance. 

[TRANSITION SONG: Fade in audio “05 mix aicoala miya” from 00:00 to 00:11, then fade out as next voice over begins] 

Grace:

The stories you just heard about Covid adaptation, waterbird conservation, sea turtle monitoring, and swimming crab regulations illustrate that effective conservation requires a bridging of multiple knowledge types. But, creating this bridge comes with many challenges.  

Through our conversations with members of the Comcaác community, it’s clear that it has become difficult to maintain certain aspects of native culture in an increasingly modernized world. For example, a higher influx of non-Comcaác Mexicans in Punta Chueca has brought in more people who don’t speak Quinquitum- the native Comcaác language. Coupled with the fact that Quinquitum is not taught in school, this demographic shift has sparked fear in older generations that their native language will be lost forever.

 Without the maintenance of traditional knowledge, we would be building a bridge to nowhere.  

 [TRANSITION SONG: Fade in audio “Reverie Transition” from 00:16 for 5 seconds, then fade out as next voiceover begins] 

But finding effective methods to build this bridge is also difficult.  

Alberto Mellado Medina is the sole representative of Punta Chueca for the regional government, the Municipality of Hermosillo. Alberto is an accomplished community leader, author, and scholar. He’s kind of a big deal.  

Historically, the Comcaác people have been pushed aside by the Mexican government for centuries. As a result, they have been denied basic resources and representation to improve living conditions and personal livelihoods. The current Mexican president, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, has set out to change this dynamic by prioritizing indigenous communities and giving them an opportunity to express their needs to the  federal government. This is where Alberto comes in.  

[Insert audio “Alberto Mellado 3-22 pt1” from 1:35:55- 1:36:21 

“And the president, well I cannot imagine more support that a president that has come two times in his three years to my village compared to the other ones that never came in 50 years and we are working on solutions for the tribe]  

As community representative—, Alberto has spent the past six months identifying issues within Punta Chueca and has begun addressing them one by one. By the end of the assessment process, he identified 182 problems within the community. This list includes both basic necessities, such as running water and electricity, and other needs such as modern medical equipment and resources for the high school.  

Alberto and his staff have been working extremely hard to capitalize on the unprecedented support the Comcaác community is receiving from the Mexican government. It’s a unique historical moment. Alberto and his collaborators are the first Comcaác to have a seat at the table to represent their people. They can now help determine how indigenous knowledge and experiences are incorporated in federal policies and actions. That’s a lot of pressure for just a few people to bear.   

[1:38:30 – 1:39:01  → “There is um payback on that, that you get like very tired, you get fat, your body pays for it. But I get to continue continue continue. I will go downhill at some point, but not now… stars are aligned.]  

Even with the support of others, one person in one moment cannot relieve 500 years of neglect and oppression. 

[TRANSITION SONG: Insert audio “08 mix toniyobi manabi” from 00:05 – 00:13, then fade out as next voiceover begins] 

Claire:

Those challenges might seem extremely daunting. What can prevent an entire language from getting lost? Or how do you find avenues to convince the government that your knowledge is valuable? Still, there are bright spots that show how resilient knowledge can be in the Gulf of California communities. 

Physical places and people can be an important way to form those connections and build dialogues. The Kino Bay Center For Cultural And Ecological Studies is like an estuary where the river of western knowledge and ocean of traditional knowledge collide.  

[Insert “Beach Waves” for 3 seconds, then fade out – no need for extra pause before next voiceover] 

Prescott College in Arizona started the Kino Bay Center in 1991 as an education center and field station that would foster marine conservation programs and experiential learning. Every year, this buzzing research hub hosts over twelve hundred students and scientists from across the world to study ecosystems in the Gulf of California.  

[Fade in “Learning about whales” starting from 00:02 – 0:12, fade out as voiceover begins] 

The staff reflect this intermingling of Comcaác traditional knowledge, local fisher knowledge, and science expertise. Take Cosme, the fisher turned sea turtle extraordinaire. He was hired as the boat captain at Prescott and now leads expeditions of students, like us, to continue sharing his experience and knowledge of local biodiversity.  

Students at the station are also the new generation of linkages between local communities and Western science. They learn through experiences in the field, just like Comcaác fishers have learned about their environment for millenia. We met a Prescott student from Mexico City named Maria, who is now spending her second year at the Kino Bay Center.  

[Insert “Maria Chaparro (3-22)” from 3:10-3:50 – “My senior project is….next 10 years if it works well”] 

For Maria, community engagement is a life-long goal and effort. As a Prescott student with training in biology and science, she realizes her unique ability to translate information for the local fishing community’s benefit. 

[Insert “Maria Chaparro (3-22)” audio: 5:13-5:43 – “The thing about sea cucumbers…it’s a really common project and it’s really growing”] 

Jaime, the Kino Bay Center’s current seabird expert, is also excited that the center’s community education program is training Comcaác and local Mexican kids to become conservationists.  

[Insert “Jaime Martinez (3-26)”: 8:01 – 8:44 “Besides the monitoring… and I like that they like it.”]  

Jaime told us how another goal of the student education program is to encourage peer-to-peer learning among Comcaác kids. He hopes that their interest in the birds will also spark curiosity about traditional knowledge. He designed activities that directly facilitate conversations about traditional knowledge and stories about birds between kids and elders in the community. 

[“Jaime Martinez (3-26)” 10:37 – 11:20 – “Yeah, because I have seen that in the Comcaác community….and they will be conducting the surveys and I can rest [laugh]” ] [SPLICE with “Jaime Martinez (3-26)” – 21:04 -21:35 “And also, they have to go to the town….and there’s a lot of wonderful stories about that.”] 

The Comcaác have also adapted to new ways of transferring their knowledge to the next generation and to other cultures. In fact, social media is moving Comcaác knowledge across time and space. Valentina, our Comcaác guide, has become a bit of an influencer herself in Punta Chueca. Eight years ago, she joined Facebook where she started posting videos of her basket making. She didn’t expect much of a reaction at first, but her basket-making videos have now been played 96,000 times. Within fifteen days of posting the video, a national Mexican TV station even reached out for an interview. Talk about a viral hit!  

[Insert audio “Valentina (4-1)” fade-in and fade-out from 21:15 – 21:50] 

Valentina just explained why sharing her artistry and traditional knowledge is so important. She’s happy that people now know about Comcaác artwork and the amount of painstaking, intricate weaving that goes into each basket. People from the outside are interested in supporting the community by buying baskets at their actual value, not bargained prices. For her, Facebook and Instagram are now platforms where she can share the handiwork of other Comcaác families. This has been a crucial part in keeping these Comcaác cultural traditions alive. The sharing of knowledge is a form of cultural legitimacy.  

[TRANSITION SONG: Insert audio “08 mix toniyobi manabi” from 00:00 – 00:06 (just drumming), then fade out as next voiceover begins] 

The Comcaác also see opportunities for bridging knowledge through their childrens’ education, both at home and in school classrooms that you may be familiar with. People pursue knowledge for different purposes under different settings and circumstances. If you remember, the Comcaác left their original home on Tiburon Island to attend the new government school on the mainland.  

Nowadays, millenial and Gen Z kids from Punta Chueca are pursuing higher education and professional careers outside of fishing to benefit their families. Valentina proudly shared with us that her daughter is studying medicine in Mexico City.  

[Insert “Valentina (4-1)” from 32:42 – 33:00 fade out] 

In Punta Chueca, the health clinic is still divided, literally, between the Western medicine branch and the traditional medicine branch. But Valentina’s daughter may be the first one to finally merge the two clinics. Valentina once taught her daughters traditional medicine at home when they were younger. Now, she says her daughter is interested in combining Western and traditional medicine once she returns home after school.  

Other Comcaác youth may be following similar paths by learning new types of knowledge to help their community navigate the modern world. Belinda is a 18-year old high school student from Punta Chueca who is passionate about studying law. We sat around our camp kitchen during lunch and Belinda opened up to us about her dreams.  

[Insert “Belinda Flores (3-25)” audio from 4:17 – 4:37 + fade out when the translation starts] 

There are currently no Comcaác lawyers in the town. Belinda sees this as an opportunity to help her community interact with the Mexican legal system. Yet a giant question mark still lingers in her plans. Belinda isn’t quite sure whether she wants to return to Punta Chueca after she leaves her nest. Perhaps she wants to find new roots elsewhere in the world. So, where this knowledge travels with Belinda and other Comcaác youth is a story to be written in the future. 

[Fade in “Reverie Transition” from 00:14 for 5 seconds, then lower volume and play softly under the next voiceover] 

Claire:

So what have we learned from these stories about knowledge? And more importantly, how can we – as students and academic researchers interested in conservation – continue building this bridge to both protect marine biodiversity and benefit community well-being?  

[Fade out music from “Reverie Transition”] 

First, we discovered how context dependent knowledge transfer is. The Comcaác people exist in a unique space where their knowledge was isolated from the outside world until only the last century. Their interactions with the environment have developed over thousands of years within a small geographic region in Mexico. And it intersects with Mexican history and pressures of modernization. Sharing this knowledge is a process that takes time and continued interaction and communication, whether it’s establishing a turtle monitoring program or foraging for a special medicine to treat a cold.  

We also learned that some types of information travel better over time and space than others. For example, Jaime’s bird population measuring methods are standardized in avian research across the world. A blue-footed booby scientist from South Africa could check out Jaime’s data sheets and instantly understand what he means by “nest count” or “sex ratio.” So it’s easier for this kind of information – that’s typically collected by Western scientific methods – to be shared and recognized internationally. If you remember, Jaime’s bird monitoring projects in the Gulf helped the estuary get international protection status.  

Yet other types of knowledge can easily get lost in translation or be forgotten if they’re not kept alive. Oral tradition that relies on language and songs can be forgotten if no one is willing to learn and practice the songs. Local knowledge can also be exploited if it falls into the wrong hands. The resident sea turtles in the Infiernillo Channel’s estuaries once suffered from this. Ernesto, the Comcaác elder, told us how word about this special breeding population – that only the Comcaác really knew about – somehow got out. Suddenly, boats from all over the Gulf snuck into the estuary to capture these turtles, causing the population to crash. Luckily, community efforts to protect the sea turtle, like Grupo Tortuguero, slowly helped rebuild the population. So, knowledge transfer requires trust, reciprocity, and constant maintenance.  

Recognizing the importance and value of this local and ecological knowledge is simply the first step to applying it to tackle the biodiversity crisis. It’s tempting to say that we need a universal formula for integrating traditional knowledge. But, no universal formula can capture the complexities of each community, their physical and cultural context, and the specific issues they face.  

[TRANSITION SONG: Fade in audio “05 mix aicoala miya” from 00:00 to 00:11, then fade out as next voice over begins] 

Now, take a moment to think back about local knowledge you might have activated today, even if you didn’t have to deal with a jammed printer. What is a unique piece of knowledge you hold about your home or local environment? What about your friends and neighbors? We all have local knowledge. On our last night on Tiburon Island, Valentina sat us down around the campfire to share one last piece of a Comcaác story. Line-by-line, she taught us how to sing a traditional song, just as her uncle had taught her.  

[Fade in audio “Class Octopus Song” starting from 00:07 to end, play entire song once and then repeat clip softly under voiceover] 

This small campfire moment felt so powerful and symbolic to me. On a small scale, the blending of our voices with Valentina’s symbolized a coming together of Western-influenced students with traditional knowledge. By opening up these conversations, you might find a new way to connect your own lived experiences with other people in your community or with the environment.  

Claire:

[Voiceover, song continues] Thank you for joining us for this episode of Seas the Day. We express our deepest gratitude to our Comcaác guides and the staff at the Kino Bay Center for their openness, patience, and enthusiasm in sharing their knowledge with us. And a huge thank you to our professor Xavier Basurto and our awesome TA Dana Grieco for this amazing experience. 

To find more information about the people and places mentioned in this podcast, check out the show notes on the Seas the Day website. You’ll also find Valentina’s social media information, so be sure to give her a follow!  

[“Class Octopus Song” fades out after the song finishes (“…ona yii”)] 

Xavier: Thanks for listening to Seas the Day. Today’s episode on Knowledge(s) was written and recorded by: Claire Huang, Grace Jennings, Brittany Tholan, Jieyi Wang, and Zoe Wong. All were students in Community-Based Marine Conservation in the Gulf of California. Becca Horan edited the podcast. Our theme music is by Joe Morton and our artwork is by Stephanie Hillsgrove. Follow us on Instagram and twitter at Seas the Day Pod and don’t forget to rate us on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

END OF TRANSCRIPT 

Audio File Sources

Robert John. 2021. “Reverie.” Nu Tiel Records. Accessed at: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Robert_John/torpor/reverie

Songs by members of the Comcaac community: “aicoala miya,” “toniyobi manabi,” “beisi dobene,” “baico.”

Ocean wave, seagull, and footstep sound effects obtained from https://www.zapsplat.com.

All other background sound effects collected by podcast hosts in the field.

References

Basurto, X. 2005. How locally designed access and use controls can prevent the tragedy of the commons in a Mexican small-scale fishing community. Society and Natural Resources, 18(7), 643-659.

Diario Oficial de la Federación. 1970. 28 de Noviembre de 1970. México, DF, México.

Diario Oficial de la Federación. 1975. 11 de Febrero de 1975. México, DF, México.

Diario Oficial de la Federación. 1978. 2 de Agosto de 1978. México, DF, México.

Felger, R. S., and M. B. Moser. 1985. The People. In: People of the Desert and Sea. Ethnobotany of the Seri Indians. Felger, R. S., and M. B. Moser. (Eds). Tucson, AZ: University of Arizona Press. (Ch. 1, 2, 3).